What about AM2's in the Safari

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What about AM2's in the Safari

Postby 216446 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:11 pm

Why would'nt there be an AM2 division, It does'nt make sense, there are more AM2's on the course than any other ,and the fee has been bumped to 70 bucks. I'm not sure I like that, well maybe I do, No I don't. If $70 is the fee I have to pay I'd rather compete in a division that best suits my game.Two woman's division's for a total of 7 woman, come on. Let's rethink this before it gets to late. I've spoken to several members about this and they agree and may not play, that would be a shame.
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Re: What about AM2's in the Safari

Postby doublejack » Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:50 am

I'm not involved in the Safari planning at all, and these are just my opinions as an AM2:

1) I've played in several 1-, 2-, and 3-day PDGA tourneys so far this year. $70 is the going rate for a 2-day tourney. That's just the way it is.

2) Last year was AM-only, so no pros could play. Many of them volunteered to help the Safari run smoothly, which I respected a lot.

3) The Safari isn't just for locals — this is our chance to show off and share our course with competitive players from all over.

4) I and many others would like to see more women playing and competing in disc golf. You do that by making sure they're welcome at all tournaments.

Sure, I'm a little disappointed I won't be competing in this year's Safari. But I figure the planners put some thought into it and had good reasons for their decisions, so instead I'll be volunteering to make sure this year's Safari is fun and reflects well on the SFDGC.
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Re: What about AM2's in the Safari

Postby geo » Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:03 am

I agree w/ all of DoubleJack's points. In my opinion, an Am2 player has the option to play "up", where as most other divisions don't have that option. I for one would love to see more women playing in tourneys and if that means just one Am division, so be it.
I've played pro for years and haven't cashed a ton but you won't hear me saying I need a division that best suits my game. I could probably play Am1 under the PDGA ratings guidelines but I find when you play with people who are equal to and or better than your skill set, you will find yourself raising your game to compete and also learning more along the way. I don't know why people always have to label an entrance fee into a tourney as "donating" when you get to play a great course, mingle with friends/competitors, and help the club out. You've already sold yourself short if you think your donating, and in that case maybe all the Am2s who think they can't step up shouldn't play---looks like you've already decided what the outcome is going to be. You should try Am1 and see how it goes, you might actually do better than you're giving yourself a chance to do. I didn't do very well in Am2 before I jumped to Am1 and I won numerous NorCal tourneys, the NorCal series one year and took third another year, and all this without doing anything in AM2. Just food for thought.
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Re: What about AM2's in the Safari

Postby uofc2003 » Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:39 pm

I'm glad someone posted on this. I don't understand why you would want push the two largest groups into one MEGA group.

I looked at the four NorCal events for 2010 that have pros and ams (Feather River Open, Vintage Cup, Otter Open, KOA). At the Otter Open this year there were an equal number of open players as am1, though not as many as am2. At the other three tourneys? The two largest groups were am1 and am2. What am I missing? What benefit could there be to combining the two most-popular (populous) divisions?

doublejack wrote, "I figure the planners put some thought into it and had good reasons for their decisions". I didn't attend any meetings on the Safari, so I'm coming late to the debate. But I'm scratching my head on this one.
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Re: What about AM2's in the Safari

Postby todd » Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:29 am

I hear ya. Its a bummer that we can't offer all divisions this year. There's no Grandmasters either. So you are not alone. ;-) And in terms of the ladies, they will always be welcome.

Now to answer some of your questions. At the crux of the matter is that we have one 18 hole course to work with. We are also competing with a half dozen or so festivals that happen during this time of year right across the street at Speedway Meadow. This is very limiting. In addition, the city has denied us our traditional 18 hole safari course ever since our permanent one went in. I think we are very lucky to even have a tournament this year let along permission to use the extra holes for this year's event. Otherwise the field would have been even smaller or not happen at all. And to uofc2003's observation regarding the NorCal events that have had large Am fields while being a Pro/Am weekend, 3 of the 4 tourneys have two 18 holes courses. They can accommodate 144 players.

In terms of how we decided on the format. This was voted on by the Safari staff that was present at the first meeting earlier this year. There were 2 options put on the table. Am only or Pro/Am. Pro/Am reigned supreme this year with the compromise to limit the number of divisions. The pros have not been able to play the last two years so i think this is an ok compromise. Not ideal. But ok.

In terms of the bigger picture, the SFDGC is dedicated to maintaining and expanding disc golf in San Francisco, ie. McLaren, and we need your help to do it. Once we have 2 courses in place, you can bet we will host one the best of tournament weekends in the NorCal Series. But until then, we need everyone to be patient and supportive of what the SFDGC is doing for disc golf in the city.

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Re: What about AM2's in the Safari

Postby uofc2003 » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:42 pm

I'm excited to play in my first Safari regardless of the division situation. :D

With all due respect for what you personally and the SFDGC have done for disc golf in san francisco and the bay area, why is the club attempting to exclude the am2 crowd from the Safari? That's what I'm reading between the lines from your post. It seems like the thinking goes, eliminating am2 will lower the number of registrations from am2 players (which does seem likely, though not in my case) creating more space for pros and higher-rated am1 players. What's the benefit to more pros and am1s?

Unless there's some hidden restriction on the number of competitive division the Safari can offer, I don't see why registration shouldn't offer as many divisions as possible, then collapse divisions that have fewer than 5 entrants. I think this is pretty standard stuff. This method is more inclusive and results in a more accurate reflection of the competitive disc golf community.
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Re: What about AM2's in the Safari

Postby Stick » Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:35 pm

There is not an am2 because they added pro divisions. The last 2 years the Safari was Am only, which sucked for the pro players. SO..... for 2 years I did not get to play in our tournament. NOW.... I get to. If that means no am2 this year, oh well. At least you could have played the last 2 as an am2 and can still play as am1 in this one. The pro players had NO options to play last 2 years. The club isn't excluding am2 players just am2 division. That's 1 division, where as with no pros that's 3 divisions that aren't represented.
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Re: What about AM2's in the Safari

Postby uofc2003 » Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:10 am

I think Pro/Am is the best way to go, don't get me wrong. My low-amateur experience is enriched by the presence of the Open pros. My issue is with trying to exclude the biggest group of disc golfers, Am2s. Eliminating Am2 as a division is trying to exclude Am2s.

But, this is a false dilemma between Pros and Am2s. They play in tournaments together all the time, and the 2010 Safari could easily accommodate both groups. Would it shrink the pool of pros? Probably, but that's appropriate as a mere reflection of the disc golf population. If we as a club want to protect pro spots in the safari, then cap the number of Ams. Say, 54 Pros + 54 Ams = 108 competitors and create the divisions according to the distribution of golfers within each group.
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Re: What about AM2's in the Safari

Postby geo » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:07 pm

Am2 is the biggest group of golfers because there are so many baggers!
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